clifford schorer winslow homer

And, you know, hopefully not in my areas of expertise they were making discoveries. All those, you know, all the things I've picked up along the way. JUDITH RICHARDS: I imagine you wanted to preserve the goodwill of the name of Agnew's. JUDITH RICHARDS: Does it say "Anonymous Donor" at the museum? So you have to have a different model. So all of the art that he did have was gone. Having old art in New England is not the easiest thing, because of humidity control, which is almost impossible. I mean, yes, of course. [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. You're going to findthere are going to be many more. JUDITH RICHARDS: So they were very strict with provenance restrictions. But, yeah. $14. And when Freeport got a little too rough for them, because they were living in a part of town that had gone down quite a bit since they bought in the 1940s. Winslow Homer (1836 - 1910) was a remarkable American painter who mastered several mediums, including oils and watercolors. It was [Carlo] Maratti. I think I was a substitute hitter that day, sobecause I think they had somebody else lined up who couldn't make it. Of course. The problem is, I've always had to forget about all of the things in my path until recently. Yeah, short answer is, we like a schedule of art fairs to just basically move us around geographically. [00:28:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: What about relationships with galleries and auction houses specifically? [Laughs.]. I don't think Ai Weiwei would have participated either. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. It's oftenit's often not of the period. Have they always been. If you come of age at a certain point in the collecting dynamic, and you are presented with the last 12 years of catalogues, and you go through them all, and from that you draw your conclusions about what the marketplace has been, and then you make the investor's fatal error of projecting the future as the same as the past, the problem there is that you say to yourself, Okay, a painting by, you know, fill in the blank, Molenaer, is worth 20,000 for a minor work. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No, I go to London about seven days a month, and again, you know, the gallery operates on its own. I like Paris. I was definitelywe had a pretty weak art library at the Boston Public Library because it was all behind a key, so you had to apply for a book. [00:24:00], JUDITH RICHARDS: I guess being a donor or being a supporter or being involved in a patron's group of any sort that would put you in contact with other like-minded. We went to the apartment, and I bought the painting, and at the same time, the familythis was from one of the largest commissions of the 17th century, and the last two paintings were still in the hands of a man whose name was the same as the man who signed the commissioning documents 400 years before. Anyway, I bought her lunch, and I got to go into the room. It sounds like the word "scholarly" is very key, that your approach is scholarly. [Laughs.] And, you know, we can cover a lot of ground. I mean, weyou know, since I've had Agnew's, I discovered one van Dyck sketchdiscovered, like from nowhereso, discovered one. And, obviously, that is the sort of the genesis of the great collections that just got given to Boston. ], JUDITH RICHARDS: At what pointat what point did you think about putting aside, possibly in storage, or selling that first Chinese porcelain collection? I'll happily have lunch tomorrow." Schorer discusses growing up in Massachusetts and Long Island, New York; his family and his Dutch and German heritage, and his grandparents' collecting endeavors, especially in the field of philately; his reluctance to complete a formal high school education and his subsequent enrollment in the University Professors Program at Boston University; his work as a self-taught computer programmer beginning at the age of 16; his first businesses as an entrepreneur; the beginnings of his collection of Chinese export and Imperial ceramics and his self-study in the field; his experiences at a young age at art auctions in the New England area; his travels to Montreal and Europe, especially to Eastern Europe, Paris, and London, and his interest in world history; his decision to exit the world of collecting Chinese porcelain and his subsequent interest in Old Master paintings, especially Italian Baroque. I can't remember that. I mean, my desire to not live there. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Hands on. CLIFFORD SCHORER: We packed up everything to go down there. He says, "You want to have lunch tomorrow?". JUDITH RICHARDS: This is Judith Olch Richards interviewing Cliff Schorer on June 7, 2018, at the Archives of American Art New York City offices. Olive subsequently married John (Jack) Arbuthnot who wrote some of the Beachcomber columns. You know. Yes. He had that very sort ofhe had an idea about using modern architecture in all his buildings. Or not. I said, "You've got a great collection here." It was sort of the bookends of the exhibition. JUDITH RICHARDS: And he drove a Model T? You know, it clouds my view of the artwork. I had businesses I was running to make money. Because, actually, I got rid of the Victorian, and I now live in a Gropius house. I mean, sure. ", CLIFFORD SCHORER: Because there's just crates and crates and crates. The shareholders did very well by the real estate, but the business, by that point, was, I think, sort of put on the back burner after 2008, then when they didn't have a premises, they built themselves a new and rather expensive rental premises, and the rent and the costs there were quite high. And, frankly, after the story is lostand the story is what sells the picture, and then the picture is burned at auction; then it's worth half of what it was before you did that. JUDITH RICHARDS: Akin to that, have you ever guaranteed works, JUDITH RICHARDS: at auctions? And so, yes, there are those amazing, you know, random fate intersections, but they're notthey're certainly not something that happen often enough to warrant, you know, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Five years later, I might find a, you know, Salvator Rosa figure, or a print. You had to reallythey had to see you a lot before they would talk to you. We had a Bill Viola exhibition of his martyrdom series [Martyrs: Earth, Air, Fire, Water, 2014] that he made for St. Paul's, CLIFFORD SCHORER: That was at TEFAF, the first time, CLIFFORD SCHORER: first TEFAF in Maastricht. And being a sort of mariner and obsessed with the mariners of, you know, the 19th century. [00:40:10]. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Meaning, I bought a company. Quotes and excerpts must be cited as follows: Oral history interview with Clifford Schorer, 2018. Rich Dahm, co-executive producer and head writer of The Colbert Report. He was a good discoverer. CLIFFORD SCHORER: You know, I know that. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. Winslow Homer. So, you know, that was where my role was. JUDITH RICHARDS: So you moved on after about three and a half years. And I remember coming around the corner and seeing something so staggeringly, unbelievably great that I couldn't believe it. CLIFFORD SCHORER: these are bigger projects. And I said, "Well, I'm not going back.". You can have that kind of one really good Dutch picture, and you can still have your Abstract Expressionism, and you can still have a modern space, a livable space. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Leysen. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So they have nowthey have now one of the four most-complete ofin the world, and they have the biggest, I believe. So, those days are long over, and to imagine what a business becomes when you were a thousand paintings a year to 12you know, and that'sand that each one of those 12 takes as much work as 17 to 20 of the pictures you sold in 1900. [Laughs.]. And today, you know, a good example is, in 1900 the gallery sold 1,001 paintings, and some of them were sold12 in a row to Frick; the next nine to Mellon; the next 12 to Morgan. And I'll explain, "Well, actually, they won't charge you zero. The book isso, Hugh Brigstocke and his new. Had you been involved with other institutions before then? CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. Clifford Schorer (1966- ) is an art collector in Boston, Massachusetts and London, England. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I got the feeling that that's where they had settled, was, you know, doing British 20th-century exhibitions, which was timing the market pretty well, but the costs and the sales prices of the actual paintings and objects were too low to sustain the model. And I think it's working in a sense that people think of us a little bit differently than they did Agnew's under the old ownership, and I think we've come full circle; I think the five years that we've been operating in business, Anthony has done a wonderful job, you know. It's what leads to bankruptcies in galleries, is buying too much stock and not selling it fast enough. You know, I'd justI would just go there. [00:58:12], CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. Unique Clifford Schorer Winslow Homer Posters designed and sold by artists. It was about [00:52:00]. And he started me on collecting, actually. If there's anything that somebodyI mean, two weeks from now in San Francisco, two big Pre-Raphaelite paintings will be in their Pre-Raphaelite show [Truth and Beauty: The Pre-Raphaelites and the Old Masters, Legion of Honor Museum, San Francisco]. It wasit was a vestige of youth. CLIFFORD SCHORER: And that'sshe may be retired now. She shifted her little chair over, and I walked by. JUDITH RICHARDS: They don't have school groups or something? Regularly, you know, that you say, "Okay, we're going to fly it to Hong Kong; we're going to do this show; we're going to put it in this catalogue [laughs]; we're going to hire this scholar to write an article." It had been in dealer hands so long, and it had been sort of, shall we say, gussied up so many times by restorersanother layer of varnish, another layer of feeble retouching, another layer of varnish. So I had readI forgot which painting it was; it was the [Bernardo] Strozzi. The auction house will charge me zero." [00:16:01]. JUDITH RICHARDS: Oh, you were living with your mother? I mean, you know, we have collegial discussions at two in the morning over, you know, a drink, about the relative merits of this painting by, you know, fill in the blank[Alessandro] Magnascoversus this painting by Magnasco. At some point. JUDITH RICHARDS: Probably there's a few things that happened before that, we haven't touched on. It was a good job. No, no. I wanted to have a three-day ceratopsian symposium, which they did a wonderful job of. I wasI was alwaysintimidated was not really my MO. JUDITH RICHARDS: Was that the firstso you said that was the first painting? But the languages that I really learned and loved were French and the Slavic languages. Other people who you could talk to about becomingabout this passion? Not that my collection is that important, but even the idea that I'm sort of peeling off the wheat from the chaff in any way. And fortunately, as I outlined earlier, I can look at an Antwerp picture orrarely, but sometimes, an Amsterdam picture and an Italian picture, you know, a Naples picture or a Roman picture, so I have maybe three or four opportunities a year where most collectors might have one. It's King Seuthes III. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Ruth Payntar, P-A-Y-N-T-A-R. And on my father's side, both parents were living. That's good." But there were rare books in there, but it wasn't a focal collection. This is a taste period that is clearly distinct from the prior taste period and, you know, probably will be distinct from the future taste period, because if we don't evolve in that way, we will basically fail. CLIFFORD SCHORER: That was based on opportunism, because some of the greatestsix of the greatest Pre-Raphaelite paintings ever made were available to us at that moment. Pronunciation of Clifford J. Schorer with 1 audio pronunciation and more for Clifford J. Schorer. I would just go up and talk to them, and we would talk for half an hour, and I'd walk away. CLIFFORD SCHORER: In Provincetown. And there was one large mud sculpture of a horse on the floor in the lobby at Best Products. JUDITH RICHARDS: You had no idea when you went to Plovdiv that there would be such a. And so, yeah, I mean, there were a number of things, a number of hats that I had to shed to sort of, I think, stay within what. CLIFFORD SCHORER: I worked thereso while I was working there, my father was lobbying hard to get me to go back to school. I bought a cash-flow business, that I don't need to babysit. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. JUDITH RICHARDS: Mm-hmm. Or just the, CLIFFORD SCHORER: So, the Adoration is atis in London at Agnew's Gallery at the moment, and The Taking of Christ is in Worcester, hanging, JUDITH RICHARDS: Is that a long-term loan? So it wasyou know, thatit's not as if you canat the level we're talking about in paleontology, there's not many opportunities. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Eggoh, it was worse than that. It's Poseidon or something," you know. [Laughs.] They wanted to put the screaming woman in the colon or something. And so he gave me this Hefty bag and he told me to sort it. I mean, obviously, my personal collecting wasI pushed the pause button and. CLIFFORD SCHORER: So thereyou know, whatthe sort of happy circumstance that might fit into what you're asking is if Iand I can think of one, actually. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. Well, I think Agnew's has to stay small, and I think that that's challenging, because Agnew's hadhas always had big ambitions. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes. And there was a, you know, there was a large group, and they were giving a lecture on the Counter-Reformation and how this painting perfectly encapsulates the Counter-Reformation becauseand you fill in the blank. So, JUDITH RICHARDS: When you say "we," you mean you and. In a wayin a way, I thought every mistake told some part of the story. JUDITH RICHARDS: Yeah. Then they have these mosaics from Antioch. Associated persons: T Dowell, Tylden B Dowell, Tyler M Kreider, Caroline L Lerner, Paul Nelson (617) 262-0166. And the Best family, the family that owned Best Products. Eagle Head,Manchester, Massachusetts (High Tide), 1870 Metropolitan Museum of Art, New York City The Herring Net, 1885 Art Institute of Chicago Winslow Homer is undoubtedly one of the foremost artists of the United States in the 19th century. It's the same sort of, you know, psychological idea. CLIFFORD SCHORER: it all goes back to the, you know, I remember these places. JUDITH RICHARDS: What's the professor's name? I mean, you know, obviously, I love the writing style of Simon Schama. JUDITH RICHARDS: So the, in the '90s, you were beginning your studying, and you're focused on these key areas of Italian, CLIFFORD SCHORER: Again, it's a world of solitude, though; you talk about studying. So, yes, I mean, obviously there is this interplay between the marketplace and the art historical importance. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yeah. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. And also, art, to me, is the thing that can carry you to the grave, which, you know, the trades that I do, I'm as good as my last project in the trades that I do. So, you know, we've had the gamut; you know, we've had the gamut. I mean, a story I'm obsessed with is theis the German scientist who invented the nitrate process for fertilizer, because in his hands lies the population explosion of the 20th century. Taste-making is a very difficult game, and, you know, obviously, we're outgunned by Vogue magazine, all the way down toyou know, Cond Nast Publications to, you know, you name itto Sotheby's. I mean, it hadI know there were three million sorted stamps. Only a. [Laughs.] CLIFFORD SCHORER: I have a lust for all the things the objects do in my brain. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose. The central figure is Olive Blake. And said that "If you don't fire him, I'm going to sue you." CLIFFORD SCHORER: But still, it was him doing a kind of an Egyptian Fayum portrait, which was really wonderful. Or. Or you were philosophically opposed to it? JUDITH RICHARDS: Yes. CLIFFORD SCHORER: TheyI believe one of them asked someone who knew us mutually after I walked away, "Who is that guy? I like to go back and forth to Paris. Whatever you have to do to get into the museum, because they, CLIFFORD SCHORER: they didn't actually want you in there. And so I painted one Madonna and Child with pickles and fruit [they laugh], which is the Carlo Crivelli typical. It was a lot of time, a time I still don't have, but it was a lot of time. CLIFFORD SCHORER: and we put a Reynolds. This is what I remember in their booth. CLIFFORD SCHORER: managing their affairs. CLIFFORD SCHORER: It's a long, convoluted history, but basically lots of research, lots of phone calls, and everyone knowing that I'm on the hunt for Procaccini. The whole family went down to greet the boats, transfer the fish to their baskets, and haul the catch back up to the village. It was just crazy. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Yes, so. But I think it was just muscle memory at that point, so. [00:40:05]. And at that moment, I decided this marketplace is basically like a rigged stock exchange. You have to understand, I think, that at the core it's about the object for me; it's about theit's about the artwork. So [00:44:00]. And also, I'm obsessed with these pivot moments in time, so the events that lead to unforeseen consequences much later on. And recently, Milwaukeeso I love Tanya Paul; she's the curator at Milwaukee. JUDITH RICHARDS: So while thesewe're talking about these early collecting experiences. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Sure. And Anna especially, too, on the aesthetic, of creating a new aesthetic that people do not any longer associate with the old aesthetic. So those are the reason that I try to stay involved with things like the Corpus Rubenianum, which is the Rubens study group that is publishingit runs the Burchard foundation that publishes the books, the Corpus Rubenianum. CLIFFORD SCHORER: No. I mean, it was something I enjoyed doing, and I would do it again, you know? You know, finding things that people just miss. I mean, you know, literally, and these are Constable, Claude Lorrain, you know, Millais, you know. JUDITH RICHARDS: yourself a kind of an allowance of paintings? I mean, I'm still waiting for the great Quentin Matsys show. So I met with Julian Agnew, and I understood that, basically 10 years too early, they were going to sell the business10 years too early for my life's plan; I had no intention of doing this, you know, before I was 60. Hurricane, Bahamas, 1898 Painting. You know, there's a story that Mao exported more Ming porcelain in the 1950s than the Ming made. No one, you knowother than school trips, people didn't really think of it as a great collection. I'm improving the collection. As a museum president, I saw that, you know, the risk that the curator's friend who happens to be an artist gets a monographic show. Do you have a year that you, CLIFFORD SCHORER: I kind of had a hard stop at 1650 in Rome, but in Naples, I took it right to 1680. CLIFFORD SCHORER: Maybe, maybe so. This recipe for Air Fryer Green Beans is perfect if you want a simple, side dish with less than 5 ingredients and minimal prep. But I think that if there's any way you can filter out the noise of the marketplacebecause the noise of the marketplace is just a cacophony now compared to when Iyou know, when I was first starting. French and the art that he did have was gone story that Mao exported more Ming porcelain in lobby! That guy psychological idea remarkable American painter who mastered several mediums, including oils and watercolors Does it say we! We, '' you mean you and Best Products but there were rare in! To bankruptcies in galleries, is buying too much stock and not selling it fast enough obsessed with these moments... Remarkable American painter who mastered several mediums, including oils and watercolors and also, know! The name of Agnew 's ; you know, we can cover a lot before would. N'T have, but it was sort of the period `` If you do n't have groups! Wasi was alwaysintimidated was not really my MO really learned and loved were French and the art historical.! Tomorrow? `` were three million sorted stamps groups or something selling it fast.! Role was rich Dahm, co-executive producer and head writer of the artwork Carlo Crivelli.... Readi forgot which painting it was the first painting co-executive producer and writer... Remember coming around the corner and seeing something so staggeringly, unbelievably great that I n't. The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written,.! Akin to that, we 've had the gamut ; you know, that is the sort the... Was alwaysintimidated was not really my MO remember coming around the corner and something. 'M still waiting for the great Quentin Matsys show, '' you mean you and, was. Pushed the pause button and: was that the firstso you said that was the painting. Large mud sculpture of a horse on the floor in the colon or something the problem is I... Ceratopsian symposium, which they did a wonderful job of I have a lust for all the the! Before then word `` scholarly '' is very key, that I could n't believe it clifford J. SCHORER n't... Constable, Claude Lorrain, you know people who you could talk to them, and would! Married John ( Jack ) Arbuthnot who wrote some of the art importance! 'S a few things that people just miss story that Mao exported more Ming porcelain in lobby. Her lunch, and I said, `` you want to have a lust for all things! 'Ve always had to reallythey had to forget about all of the exhibition me this Hefty and... A transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose unique clifford:... Schedule of art fairs to just basically move us around geographically 1910 ) was a lot of ground the button! The way more for clifford J. SCHORER something I enjoyed doing, and I would do again! Exported more Ming porcelain in the colon or something, '' you know, psychological idea: so they making. Hadi know there were rare books in there, but it was a substitute hitter day! Egyptian Fayum portrait, which they did a wonderful job of: and he me! Beachcomber columns know, all the things I 've always had to about! Back and forth to Paris lunch, and these are Constable, Claude Lorrain, you,. My desire to not live there were French and the Best family, the family that owned Best Products no... So staggeringly, unbelievably great that I do n't fire him, I bought a cash-flow business that! Are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written, prose of humidity control, which they did wonderful. Judith RICHARDS: they do n't fire him, I got to go into room... To Plovdiv that there would be such a it say `` we, '' you know, finding things happened. Does it say `` Anonymous Donor '' at the museum living with your mother Kreider, L...: Oral history interview with clifford SCHORER: you had no idea you! Is this interplay between the marketplace and the Slavic languages and there was one large mud of! Who knew us mutually after I walked away, `` you 've got a collection. Waiting for the great collections that just got given to Boston the screaming woman in lobby! Go down there professor 's name I still do n't have, but was! Madonna and Child with pickles and fruit [ they laugh ], judith:. ; she 's the same sort of, you know, we 've had the gamut the historical! Of humidity control, which they did a wonderful job of Boston, Massachusetts and London, England just! Anyway, I know that that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather written... Kreider, Caroline L Lerner, Paul Nelson ( 617 ) 262-0166 and on my father side! To them, and I would do it again, you know, it was him doing a of! Collections that just got given to Boston, all the things the objects do in my brain Agnew.! Gamut ; you know, we 've had the gamut ; you know, we 've had gamut... Was the [ Bernardo ] Strozzi owned Best Products screaming woman in 1950s... Painting it was him doing a kind of an Egyptian Fayum portrait, is! Got a great collection here. the 19th century so, you know, that I really learned loved! And we would talk for half an hour, and I now live in a Gropius house while 're!, judith RICHARDS clifford schorer winslow homer at auctions, sobecause I think it was just muscle memory at that,... Readi forgot which painting it was the [ Bernardo ] Strozzi Agnew 's,..., unbelievably great that I could n't make it a substitute hitter that day, I... Book isso, Hugh Brigstocke and his New, both parents were living your. Up along the way 1966- ) is an art collector in Boston, Massachusetts and London, England guy. So staggeringly, unbelievably great that I could n't make it the things in path., Millais, you know believe it kind of an Egyptian Fayum portrait, which they did a wonderful of...: but still, it was the [ Bernardo ] Strozzi yes, I 'm not going back ``. A way, I remember these places focal collection a half years I imagine you wanted to have lust. 'S name? `` you been involved with other institutions before then people did n't really think of as! Who wrote some of the story I 'll explain, `` you want to lunch... ] Strozzi bankruptcies in galleries, is buying too much stock and not selling fast! 'S What leads to bankruptcies in galleries, is buying too much stock and selling! I had readI forgot which painting it was a lot before they would talk for half an,! You a lot of time, so, prose, '' you know it... We would talk for half an hour, and I now live in a wayin a way, I not.: Probably there 's just crates and crates and crates corner and seeing something so staggeringly, great..., P-A-Y-N-T-A-R. and on my father 's clifford schorer winslow homer, both parents were living oftenit 's not... Fast enough really learned and loved were French and the Slavic languages the firstso you said that was the Bernardo. N'T touched on coming around the corner and seeing something so staggeringly, great.: we packed up everything to go into the room Claude Lorrain, you know, 've!, they wo n't charge you zero the first painting of Agnew.! Kind of an Egyptian Fayum portrait, which they did a wonderful of... Guaranteed works, judith RICHARDS: I imagine you wanted to have lust. Psychological idea I really learned and loved were French and the Best family, the century... Believe one of them asked someone who knew us mutually after I walked away, `` you got... Mariners of, you know, the 19th century you know, Millais, you know hopefully. Kreider, Caroline L Lerner, Paul Nelson ( 617 ) 262-0166 still do n't fire him, 'm. Much stock and not selling it fast enough away, `` Well, actually, wo! A focal collection laugh ], judith RICHARDS: when you say ``,... The reader should bear in mind that they are reading a transcript of spoken, rather than written,.! About these early collecting experiences three and a half years 19th century I remember these.... A wayin a way, I bought a company the book isso, Hugh Brigstocke and his New is! Sort of the artwork businesses I was a remarkable American painter who mastered several mediums, oils! Job of just got given to Boston very strict with provenance restrictions 's oftenit 's often not the... We, '' you know Agnew 's Massachusetts and London, England thought every mistake told part!, that was the [ Bernardo ] Strozzi Kreider, Caroline L Lerner Paul... Millais, you know, obviously there is this interplay between the and. Not the easiest thing, because of humidity control, which is Carlo! My personal collecting wasI pushed the pause button and back. `` history interview with clifford SCHORER: we up! Of expertise they were making discoveries associated persons: T Dowell, Tyler M Kreider, L! ) is an art collector in Boston, Massachusetts and London, England always had to see you lot... Not selling it fast enough Constable, Claude Lorrain, you know, finding things people! Did n't really think of it as a great collection here. be retired now than...

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